“We’re emotional beings that think, not thinking beings that feel,” says Scott Walker, leadership coach, former Scotland Yard detective and one of the world’s most experienced kidnap for ransom negotiators. Scott joins the podcast today to share what engaging in covert counterterrorism and kidnapping operations has taught him about communicating in life and in the corporate world. The process, Scott explains, is a matter of taking your emotions—as well as your ego—out of the equation. At the same time, you must be very aware of the other person’s emotions, what they want and need including what Scott calls “the bunch of fives.” Force, subjugation and domineering approaches rarely work if at all. Negotiation is very much about collaboration. It is far less about a set script of things to say and more about showing up and being curious about another person.
For most people, talking about money is the most uncomfortable thing they do at work. When asking for a raise, focus on what you can do to provide value to your employer, on your long-term commitment. Negotiations should have a single clear message. Don’t lose sight of the outcome. Hear Scott talk about the “three Ms” that are invaluable to his daily practice.
Scott and Brendan discuss the success of Chris Voss—also a former hostage negotiator, and his ability to, in the TikTok era where most people can only stay present for a thirty second video, hold people’s attention for three hours. Scott credits JP Sears for infusing discourse with humor and nuance in a world where people hardly listen to or empathize with each other. They also discuss Diego Perez and Andrew Huberman.
Quotes:
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“I’d say that emotional self mastery, which is ultimately what having a right mindset is about, is probably one of the number one skills of an effective negotiating communicator…So you don’t become swayed from pillar to post by people’s challenges, really.” ([20:04]-[20:45] | Scott)
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“People make decisions based on emotion…if I can uncover what your real needs are, then I’m a step closer to helping you meet them.” ([28:02]-[28:35] | Scott)
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“Sometimes people ask me, ‘Are you just trying to manipulate people?…I just want you to walk away happy thinking, ‘Hey, I’ve got a good deal here.’” ([33:41]-[34:19] | Scott)
Connect with Brendan Dell:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brendandell/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/BrendanDell
Instagram: @thebrendandell
TikTok: @brendandell39
Buy a copy of Brendan’s Book, The 12 Immutable Laws of High-Impact Messaging: https://www.indiebound.org/book/9780578210926
Connect with Scott Walker:
scottwalkerbooks.co.uk
Buy a copy of Scott Walker’s book, Order Out of Chaos:
https://www.scottwalkerbooks.co.uk/
Check out Scott Walker recommended books:
Tools of TItans: The Tactics, Routines, and Habits of Billionaires, Icons, and World-Class Performers by Tim Ferris
https://www.indiebound.org/book/9781328683786
Unlimited Power: The New Science of Personal Achievement by Tony Robbins
https://www.indiebound.org/book/9780684845777
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About the Author
Brendan Dell
Brendan Dell is an author and the founder of The Daily Creative. As a freelancer he's worked with clients like Expedia, Cvent, Panasonic, Brother, Windstream and 100+ more to build unignorable tech brands. At The Daily Creative, he shares advice and lessons to help freelancers level up.
